A few questions...

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

I haven't really commented on this community much, except to post stories and what not. However, I was thinking about our ship, and I had some questions that I thought you could give me your opinions on.

First of all, the big question is whether you like Nick/Greg because you think that their relationship/attraction/chemistry is supported by canon (insomuch as a gay couple could be supported by primetime TV), or because you just like the thought of them together (all that hotness!). If you think it's canon, is it the dialogue and scenes they have together, or is it the way that George and Eric play off of each other?

Personally, I like the idea of them together. If I put on my "slash-tinted glasses," I understand how people could see certain scenes--such as Greg's teasing in Stalker and trying to impress Nick in Scuba Doobie Do, not to mention Nick's "Leggo my Greggo" of that same episode--as support of the ship. However, most of the scenes between them, while being funny and good television, don't necessarily seem slashy to me.

I know that Nick/Greg will never actually be canon, so the "evidence" I'm asking about is more like interpretation. But still, your readings of their scenes together that convinced you of the attraction/bond/off-camera relationship between them would be really interesting for me to hear.

Also, if you think they belong together or are already a couple, how do you factor in the amazing Sara Sidle, Greg's long-term crush and current sort-of love interest? I know that a lot of people have multiships, and also enjoy the idea of Sara/Greg, Sara/Nick or even Sara/Greg/Nick (Mmmm...), I'm just asking about her if 1. you only ship Greg/Nick or 2. you have multiships, but can understand Greg/Nick together. Maybe Sara doesn't matter to you at all? Do you just disregard her interaction with Greg and occasional flirtation with Nicky in favor of the Nick/Greg stuff?

Wow, that was all really long. Blame it on my English major. I love to analyze the text!

Comments

[lblikesbagels.livejournal.com]

As for Sara... see, Jorja Fox is a total lesbian, and that kind of transfers over to Sara in my eyes. So when I think of Sara and Nick, I think of them as best friends who like to joke a lot with each other... In all three CSIs, there are the "siblings", and Sara and Nick are the siblings in Las Vegas, in my opinion.

Greg, on the other hand, probably met Sara before he started going out with Nick, and dude, she's hot. Greg's probably bi, if anything, and of course he'd flirt with her (though he does flirt with everyone, so I dunno how much that's saying). Though it seems to have eased off as of late, and I'd like to assume that's because he started sleeping with Nicky and noticed, "Wait, why is Sara always over at Nick's, drinking beer and yelling at the hockey game?"

And then eventually he kinda realised that Sara's into girls. The giant rainbow sticker on her fridge might have given it away (dude, it's true, watch the end of You've Got Male).

Anyway. I don't feel like commenting on the rest of that right now. XD Just thought I'd share my views on the Sara thing.

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

Oh, has it been confirmed that JF is actually a lesbian? The only thing I've ever heard is that she's friends with lesbians in a band, or something like that.

I am definitely going to watch "You've Got Male" and look out for that sticker. If you assume Sara's a lesbian, then how do you explain her four seasons of melodrama with Grissom?

I do love your gay!Sara though. Especially in "The Kumquats."

[lblikesbagels.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if it's been actually confirmed or anything, but dude... I have this like, massive list of evidence. I firmly believe there is no way she doesn't like women. Even if she likes men, too, she definitely likes women.

As for the melodrama, it seems to me to always be Grissom angsting over Sara... He keeps saying things to her that spark people to believe there's something going on between them, but she doesn't seem to ever really give any of that back. And then there's Weeping Willows...

"You let your sexuality cloud your judgement of men!"

Which, you know... could be perfectly harmless, but really.

Back to Grissom, though, he seems more like a mentor-like influence, as opposed to a romantic one, and even Jorja herself said that she hopes a romantic relationship never evolves between them, as she feels it would "take away from the show". I think that, at first, in season one when Sara first came to Vegas, she saw Grissom as a teacher, and that kind of developed over the years, and it seems that Grissom has slowly taken more of a liking to her. It just doesn't seem like she's trying to return any of these feelings...

Glad you liked gay!Sara, though. XD

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

...Even when she asked him out at the end of "Play With Fire"? That could have been the stress of the whole ordeal getting to her, but that still seems like some serious reciprocation there, particularly since she has to psyche herself up to ask and then argues with Grissom when he turns her down.

[lblikesbagels.livejournal.com]

That seemed, to me, more like Sara giving in, almost, as she noticed that Grissom was all... not-so-secretlyinlove with her and stuff. 'Course, then he refused and she never asked him again. :P

[kahlualeia.livejournal.com]

Sorry to interupt all the interesting discussion (and I'll add in my two cents in a bit as well) but I LOVE your icon. Nine en nine sheft luft balloons (I am totally butchering the German language) is one of my ALL TIME favourite songs.

XOX

[lblikesbagels.livejournal.com]

Hee, why thank you. Glad you like it, and I lovet hat song, too. n_n

[sillie]

Hmm... interesting questions... This can get kinda long. XD

The Nick/Greg pairing actually kinda snuck up on me. I like the thought of them together, but it was the amazing chemistry between them that pulled me in. It are the looks and little touches, the way they communicate so well with looks and body language and the conversations between them. It already starts in the Pilot. I mean, come on... They're talking about anal swabs! :'3

Certainly in the first two seasons, most of the CSIs tend to treat Greg like the annoying kid brother, Nick's generally the one who indulges him. He's also the only one calling him 'G'. (cuuute! XD) He's always willing to listen to Greg long winded explanations:

Episode 3/04: A Little Murder
Greg: (grumbling) “You know, I hate it when he does that. I like to make a presentation, you know?”
Nick: “So, present.”

..and Greg's always running the extra mile for Nick:

Episode 2/03: Overload
Greg: “But when it's important to Nick here, I push further."

carolinecrane has written a wonderful piece about the N/G relationship and I'd like to quote from her on the evolution of their relationship:

The evolution of their relationship is even more obvious in retrospect; in season one there's professional respect, a lot of flirting and some good-natured teasing on Greg's part when Nick gets himself involved with one of his projects (trying and failing to save Kristi the Hooker from herself). In season two the flirting turns up a notch or two, and while Greg's a little distracted by Sara, by the end of the season ("Chasing the Bus", "Stalker") he's right back to metaphorically pulling Nick's pigtails.

The chemistry between the actors (who are very close in real life) grows as the series grows, and it can't help translating to the characters. By the end of season three, when Greg's caught in the lab explosion ("Play With Fire", 3.22), there's also a subtle change in his character – he becomes more serious, more determined to get out in the field and away from the lab, and Nick is arguably the most supportive of that goal throughout the series (he first mentions it in "Scooba Doobie Doo", 2.05, before Greg ever brings it up).

Once we get to the beginning of season four their relationship has gone from flirting and dancing around the idea of a relationship to a comfort level with one another that implies what they mean to each other. Nick's the person Greg goes to when he's allowed out in the field alone for the first time, and Nick sits in Greg's lab and smiles while Greg tells him all about it ("All For Our Country", 4.02). It's a natural, quiet progression – the kind of thing that happens in workplace romances every day – and that's what makes it so believable.


Also, if you think they belong together or are already a couple, how do you factor in the amazing Sara Sidle, Greg's long-term crush and current sort-of love interest?

Greg likes to flirt. He flirts with everything that has a heart-beat. And sure, he had a little crush on Sara in the first two seasons, but it died down in season 3.
I haven't seen season 5 entirely *grumbles at Dutch television* but of what I've seen, Greg and Sara have become friends. Good friends. But I can't see Sara as a love interest for Greg. I really can't. Nick/Greg is totally my OTP. If others like Nick/Sara or Greg/Sara, that's fine, but I just can't read it. I really can't. (oddly, I've read the occasional Greg slash story where he was paired with other man of the CSI crew, like Grissom, Warrick and even Hodges, but it was more for the fun. Somehow, I have less trouble reading that, but that's probably because Greg's my alltime favorite. I can't write Greg with anyone else but Nick though. *shrugs*)

Anyway, I'm going to stop now, cause this has become way longer than I intended to. :'3

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize that only Nick called Greg "G." That's really cute! I've read that essay you quoted from, and it's a good one with a lot of strong points. I forgot that line Greg said to Nicky in "Overload." How sweet! Thanks for reminding me.

[sillie]

Well, as far as I know, Nick's the only one. And yeah, love that piece Caroline wrote, cause it's right on.

You're quite welcome. Another line Greg say's to Nick that I love:

Episode 3/13: Random Acts of Violence
Greg to Nick: “Look, I thought that we had a relationship. What are you doing taking Archie out into the field, instead of me?"

And of course Greg's 'I'm open 24 hours' in A Little Murder.

*sighs and draws hearts around them* :'3

[c8h7n3o2]

off subject...

but where did you get pix for that icon.... I LUV!!!

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't know. I didn't make the icon. It's all the brilliance of hadria. I found this icon on csicons, and I believe she made a whole set of them with various pairings, including the one I'm using now.

[quettaser.livejournal.com]

Lots a questions. I'm gonna have a long ass answer (English major kicking in as well).

Why Nick/Greg?

It really began because I love both characters. Greg just fit the hotfunnynerd profile I find oh so yummy, and in Nick I found a unique character, supposedly the Texan frat boy, but very much sensitive and more than a little broken. So I definitely had a desire to write both of them. But then as I watched more carefully, their scenes together began to pile up.

A lot of it is definitely in George and Eric's acting, there's an unspoken closeness and comfortableness to those scenes. They aren't shy about touching each other, about being close and joking around, building depth around the script. The more I read and wrote and watched, and got a handle on their characters, building out from canon, the more they began to be drawn to each other, and it just felt right. (Well, also, let's just face it, they are, in fact, hot)

But there won't ever be a whole lot of canon to support them as a couple, because, well, according to network television: Homosexuality=Bad! But their scenes are thick with subtext and body language, volumes spoken in a single look and as a writer, that's immensely intruiging. I want to know why Nick indulges Greg so much, why they play games in the lab, what that extra long look meant.

What about Sara?

Well, I think most of us rationalize Greg's little crush on her as a manifestation of his naturally flirty behavoir. He pretty much flirts with everyone (thus leading us to conjecture that he's pretty open when it comes to attraction and relationships and thus bisexual). Of all the CSI's Greg flirts the most with Sara and Nick (IMO).

Especially in the first two seasons he has them on a pedestal, what he wants to be, his ideal (both from a relationship standpoint and a work standpoint. I think he wants to be them and be with them, not that he can make up his mind). The closer he gets to Nick, the easier he comes off the pedestal, but Sara's up there for longer, Greg's not willing to let her as an ideal slip away just yet. But by the time middle of the 5th season rolls around, they have have a very strong younger brother/older sister relationship, although Greg still flirts because he's Greg.

And by then, well, Greg's with Nick (in my brain), and Sara's realizing that maybe she shouldn't have dismissed Greg so easily all that time ago. And I think she and Grissom are going to be dancing awkward circles around each other for a long time (ala Eddie Izzard's version of "Room with a view": Oh, I'm-oh, what? Well, I've-oh./What is it, Grissom? I'm arranging matches./Well, I-I thought you-...I'd better go/Yes, I think you'd better had.).

Wow. Yeah, that was long. And I didn't even go through my DVD's and transcripts to pull up scenes and analyze them. I'm such an English major.

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

I completely agree that Nick and Greg are both great characters. I, like you, was originally attracted to the pairing because of the awesomeness of George and Eric.

I think that the point you made about Greg putting Nick on a pedestal is interesting, I'd never thought about it that way. I could see that though, now that you mention it.

I saw a lot of the Sara/Greg banter in the latter part of the fifth season as really flirtatious though. I didn't mind it, because that relationship is the one I want most of become canon (since I know that N/G never will). It's interesting that you see it as a big sister/little brother relationship. I guess it's all interpretation.

[imyourally.livejournal.com]

My love of Nick and Greg goes back to my love of slash. Up to the point that I started reading Nick and Greg, I really liked slash, but I didn't like any of the pairings I'd read. I thought in my head, "Oh, hey, CSI has a lot of guys on it. I wonder what the slash is like for it."

The first CSI slash I read was Nick/Greg and after that I couldn't make myself read other pairings because those two just fit so well. And I'd been watching CSI forever, and had always been a big fan of Greg, but I never thought about him and Nick together. That's just not where my brain went. Of course, my brain goes there for everyone on every show now, but back in the day, it didn't.

The same week I found Nick and Greg as a pairing, I turned on the tv and thought, "Damn, I wish there was some CSI on." Ha. It just so happened that it was when Spike was premiering their reruns of the show and they were having a marathon. It had been a long time since I'd seen most of the episodes, and I couldn't believe all the subtext that I hadn't noticed. There are just so many scenes where their chemistry is undeniable, that I have more than completely convinced myself that the two characters are a couple regardless of what happens in canon. At this point, though, I find nothing in canon that says they aren't a couple. And even if that changed, I'm sure I'd convince myself it didn't mean anything anyway.

As far as Sara goes, I always liked Greg's crush on Sara. I think he got tired of her not reciprocating, though. I think he probably had a thing for Nick the whole time as well. In my head, they ended up together some time between the lab explosion and the beginning of season 4. Yeah, I know, I'm crazy. Another note as far as Greg/Sara goes, I don't mind it. I can't stand Nick paired with anyone but Greg, but for some reason I have no issues with Greg and Sara together. I'd rather read Nick/Greg, but I can handle the occasional Greg/Sara.

[iamtheenemy.livejournal.com]

The first CSI slash I ever read was N/G as well. I guess we both have a bit of nostalgia worked into our love of the pairing.

Interesting that you think Nick and Greg finally got together after the third season. Any reason for this specifically, aside from all the great h/c fics that came out of the explosion? (And randomly, doesn't it suck that Nick wasn't actually there at that moment?)

[krylon-blue.livejournal.com]

I'll be honest, I was turned onto the pairing by a friend who is just as hooked on them as I am now. She pointed out all the scenes and conversations between them-- plus, the famous scene with Nick checking out G's ass as Greg walks away with his ramen noodles. Watching them with my slash-centric mind, I can't help but fill in the blanks and see them as a pair. Some of it is George/Eric.. that chemistry can't be bought or learned. And some has to be the writers and directors, purposely writing in lines or telling them to gaze at each other.

And I see Sara as more than a crush.. I believe Greg was attracted to both her and Nick in the beginning, but she was so hung up on Grissom that he eventually lost interest and got together with Nick. Plus, working together, it seems like their relationship has matured more into family. Like in 4x4 when they're together in the shower and Sara admits to looking-- but Greg is adamant that he didn't see her at all. And with all his flirting, you would think he at least would have peeked! No, I think his fascination with her has ended... and I think it would tarnish my view of him if he started dating her on the show after she rebuffed all his earlier advances.

I like Sara, don't get me wrong. But I'd rather see Catherine and Warrick together than watch Sara with Greg.

[returnofwolf.livejournal.com]

K, so I'm here representing the acting community. Kind of. Didn't have room to fit a theatre minor, but I'm still in with a lot of it. Unfortunately, I don't have elaborate evidences and quotes to share ('cept that Greg likes 'having a penis'), but I hope this can still be valid.

I've been watching CSI on and off from the beginning. I loved it, but it came on during a time that I stopped watching TV regularly, so I only caught it occasionally. From what I did see, however, Greg was my favorite character, hands down. He was the genius that would drop everything to sing a long to a hard rock classic. I have yet to find that in a real person, but when I do, I will steal him and lock him in a box so no one else can have him.

One other thing about him that I love is that he flirts with everyone copmletely unashamed. Why I think his 'crush on Sara' died down a bit is because more girls entered the lab. Not to say this meant he was 'girls only', but for a while, Sara was the only 'attainable' girl in the lab, so that was the attraction to be seen. You can't deny the flirting with Nick just as much though.

Jump into 5th season, when Greg's testing out new lab techs, and he hits on Chandra. Enter Mia, EVERYONE'S hitting on Mia. (Who I finally realized was Charlie from Friends... so awesome and SO pretty!)

Anyway, my point with all that babble was that Greg just flirts with whoever's around. Then I got into Nick/Greg a lot. It's like Hot and Hotter. The mix of kind sweettalker and crazy geniousrocker. So perfect.

In the acting, I have a few examples because they're fresh in my mind. In Stalker, it's Greg who distributes the article around the lab, right? As the episode showed, every action has a reaction, but what people don't think about too much is that every action has a reason. Why would Greg spread that around? One option could be jealousy and thus embarrassing him. Don't think he was jealous. Another could be that he just didn't like him and wanted to embarrass him. Yeah, don't think he didn't like him. A third could be that he liked him so much that his first reaction to seeing it was to make a million copies and show everyone how awesome he is... with the after effect of realizing that it'd embarrass him. Ding ding ding! At least in my head...

My other example is in Grave Danger. This is by far my favorite episode. For more than just Tarantino and the story. The acting in this episode is the best I've seen in a very long time. Nick in the box... phenomenal. Nick at the end talking to the chick... he played the broken man so perfectly, I was nearly crying. What I want to draw attention to is the scene in the barn with Warrick, Greg, and Catherine. When Greg finds the trigger wire, he gets so excited that it could help find Nick. Eternal optimist, or maybe just desperate to find anything. Warrick flips. The 2 second look on Greg as soon as Warrick flips says everything. It's a face of shock, defeat, confusion, helplessness and fear of never seeing Nick again. All wrapped into one. He tries so hard to find something and gets crushed so quickly, I swear if he held it for 2 more seconds he would have broken down.

Warrick was pissed and worried, Catherine wanted to get him back, but Greg was scared. Scared usually equals more than just casual friends...

Sadly, George is against in-lab relationships (see his interview at www.csifiles.com) so even if gay were okay, it wouldn't be Nick with Greg... *frown*...

-Z

[birkentree.livejournal.com]

"Sadly, George is against in-lab relationships (see his interview at www.csifiles.com) so even if gay were okay, it wouldn't be Nick with Greg... *frown*..."

Unless the Eric/George dynamic is anything like the Greg/Nick dynamic. Cos, oh yeah, Nick's the one in charge

[pitza.livejournal.com]

My reason is probably the shallowest *grin*.

I caught the CSI bug really, really late, and as Greg gets more airtime and gets to interact more with the other, the spark that lights up the brightest (for me, anyway) is with Nick.

I've started to rewatch the whole CSI epis again from the beginning, and I can't help but notice that if I were to start where most of everybody started, I would probably not have gone down the NnG road.

But, in hindsight, thank goodness, because NnG is gooood.

Uh... does that make sense? Probably not. Was depressed after watching the world track and field championships for various of reasons.