New episode discussion post: S11Ep22
May. 13th, 2011 12:05 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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nickngreg
S11Ep22 (Title behind the cut:)
Tonight's the final episode of the season! Let's make this an epic discussion post: share your Nick/Greg related thoughts on everything that happened to them in the past year!
Remember that whatever TPTB do with canon, it's up to fandom to make sure our guys get the love they deserve;)
So swoon about scenes between Nick and Greg or rant about the lack thereof. Whether you feel like jumping for joy or stomping in frustration: leave your comments here!
Now. Let's talk about the new episode....
S11Ep22 In A Dark, Dark House
FYI: this is a SpoilerFree Zone! No hints to future seasons, nor suspicions about cast or story development, please.
Ready? Set. Discuss!
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Date: 2011-05-12 10:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-12 10:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 01:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 02:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 03:26 am (UTC)Can we put him on an ice floe to just float away into the sunset...into the nowhere. Put everyone out of their misery - including the viewers!
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Date: 2011-05-13 03:47 am (UTC)(Sorry for the mini rant. I'm just really opinionated on this issue.)
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Date: 2011-05-13 03:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 05:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 04:33 am (UTC)Could we just go back to Laurence Fishburne as Morpheus and/or Cowboy Curtis on Pee-Wee's Playhouse?
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Date: 2011-05-13 02:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 03:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 01:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 12:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 01:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 02:07 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2011-05-13 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 05:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 04:57 am (UTC)I loved Brass (brass balls literally on that one!), Ecklie, and Greg in this episode; all for backing up the team.
The Doc seemed a little too much to believe... and Sara seemed quick to judge to me though.
Too little of Nick! Literally I don't think he was on for a full five minutes!
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Date: 2011-05-13 09:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 11:49 am (UTC)One aspect that really impressed me was the acting; a lot was conveyed with looks and body language in this episode. In particular, the scene with Catherine and Brass and Catherine and Doc Robbins were well done. I really liked the rapport between Greg and Sara too; some hints of the mentor/mentee relationship they had in earlier seasons as well as the friendship they have now. And of course, that last scene where they all know that Ray did what they won't admit and that at the least another person's career is now on the line.
I would have liked more Nick; perhaps because he figured more prominently in last week's episode, the writers decided to focus on others more. Still, his reaction was fairly typical Nick in that he never seems to believe the worst of his colleagues.
Even Brass's actions were in line with his character. He has always protected the CSI team. I think, in many ways, he considers them his even though he hasn't had charge of them since season 1. That he does so for Ray makes sense in the context that Ray is a part of his team. However, I do find it difficult to swallow in that Ray is still relatively new to the team and Brass doesn't have the relationship with him that he has with the others. Similarly, we know the team goes to bat for each other (Boom certainly set up that trend very nicely) so it makes sense to me that they would not want to believe Ray did what he did, even as they all suspected he had.
The ambiguity of what happened was nicely done. I was a little annoyed that it was only the female characters in this episode that were concerned with finding the truth, with all the male characters not wanting to go there. Even there, I can rationalize the males' behavior away in all cases by Greg's. I'm not sure why he would but then his characterization on CSI has always been all over the place. But that Doc doesn't want to go there makes sense because it has been established that he and Ray enjoy a close friendship. And, as I mentioned above, Nick doesn't like to see the bad in his teammates. (That will be an interesting trait to explore if he ends up heading the team after Catherine leaves.)
So yeah. I'll be a lot happier if Ray ends up leaving the show as I don't particularly care for him. OTOH, I also think a lot of interesting character aspects can be explored in the aftermath of this.
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Date: 2011-05-13 01:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 02:55 pm (UTC)However, I also feel like Greg is one of the more poorly developed characters on the show. I love him -- he's my favorite of them all but dear gods! The writers can't decide what they want from him. He's either super competent or barely competent.
As I noted above (I think), the actors make it clear that the characters know Ray did what he did. But at the same time, none of them want to acknowledge it because if they do, everything changes. In episodes where the CSIs have been under investigation, there was always the sense that everyone knew the CSI in question was innocent. The closest situation to this one was Boom but even at that point, it was clear that Nick could never kill someone in cold blooded murder - that it would be really OOC of him to do so. Boom was really about highlighting the tension between Ecklie and day shift v. Grissom and his crew, while also highlighting that Graves was better because they could get it right where Days were sloppy and not looking for everything. A sloppy way, if you will, of keeping the animosity between Ecklie and Grissom alive.
And I agree that Sara was the right one to question things. That is her. As supervisor, Catherine has to walk the line of protecting her CSI and her shift (because you know if Langston is found out all of the CSIs will suffer from it) while seeking the truth. And really, I just found it a little annoying that acceptance v. questioning was drawn along gender lines. OTOH, their reactions were pretty in line with who their characters are. I mean, in part this episode only works because we know Haskell. We know he's an evil person and we see what he does to Gloria, even if in flashbacks. No one can deny that he deserved what he got.
But. Ray is a CSI and he's not supposed to do what he did.
I'm really hoping we get some more from the characters on this next season. I hope it doesn't get swept under the rug, that we see some or all of them dealing with what they know happened and how they handled it. I think Catherine has accepted what happened, but then she processed Gloria, which has to have influenced her thoughts. I think Nick will maintain his willful blinders. And I hope Ray is knocked off the pedestal the writers have placed him.
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Date: 2011-05-13 03:39 pm (UTC)I actually think that Greg had a LOT of character development in the show. So much that, I spend hours and hours telling people about how he's changed--read people who DON'T watch CSI. Needless to say, I've lost a lot of good friends through my Greg rants... =P
But, I think it clear that he's developed a lot. I mean FORGET about lab rat Greg, the change from then is SO obvious that it's pathetic. But, even since season five there have been a lot of changes. He was unsure of himself and pretty incompetent in season five, but in season six he's more confident in his abilities. He stops trying to look professional, and cuts loose a little. Grows his hair out, changes his style--basically he stops acting like a teenager in the voice-cracking stage between a boy and a man. Then in season seven, after the beating he becomes much more subdued. He seems to shy away from attention, and loses his bounce and jokes. By season eight he's recovered, and bounces back. He cuts his hair short, starts smiling a little more, and develops a new Greg, a mix of pre and post beating Greg. Quiet, and good at his job but still really funny. In season nine he's full flirtation mode with Riley! Uff! And then in season ten, he's developed his skill quite a bit, and he's MORE than competent. He gets pissed because people are still treating him like the rookie, but when he realizes it won't change (by season eleven) he just settles into the sway of things. He's a seasoned investigator, so he learned to work with an almost frightening amount of seriousness, while still cutting loose and making jokes when he needs to. He doesn't play hero like Nick, but he's never been that guy. He was, is and always will be a little bit of a nerd (although he does sport a killer style, and his figure! Ooh!). And although he doesn't get the ray kinda screen time, I think he portrays his experience and coming-of-age through the fact that he DOESN'T get himself into the kind of fixes that Ray or Nick do. He knows what he has to do as a CSI, and even the little bit of scene time depicts his development from floundering rookie to seasoned investigator. I don't think there's ANY bounce between incompetent, competent with him. I just think that he's established himself as a guy who's stopped seeking attention, and just does his job, with the right amount of compassion and cool-headedness needed (a HUGE contrast from lab rat Greg). I think that he's partly changed so much because when Eric was first cast there was no definite character from Greg, so they just played by ear. Now that they're establishing a proper character for Greg, he's changed a lot. Plus, CSI started when Greg was only twenty five. He was probably fresh out of college. Unlike the other CSIs he hadn't had time to establish himself before he joined CSI. His character has developed literally before our eyes. And my lord, has there been a LOT of development! Unlike Grissom, Sara, Catherine or Nick, Greg grew up and changed and developed on the show, not before the show started. I don't think he even knew who he was when he started out at CSI, and now he's definitely decided who he wants to be. I think there's been plenty of development on his part.
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Date: 2011-05-13 04:12 pm (UTC)@ Ray v. pedestal - I know he's been knocked off... just hoping the show actually deals with it and not sweep it under the carpet.
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Date: 2011-05-13 02:37 pm (UTC)I haven't seen a lot of season 10 episodes and I missed a bunch of season 11 episodes. Nonetheless, I've never gotten the impression he saw Ray as a father figure. From what I've seen, I've always thought their relationship was as colleagues and nothing more. In contrast, it is pretty clear that Greg considers Nick, Catherine, and Sara family. In fact, I think he has closer relationships with the lab rats than he does with Ray.
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Date: 2011-05-13 03:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 01:32 pm (UTC)As for Sara, I actually LIKED that she questioned Ray's intentions. SOMEONE had to do it, and she really was the most suitable choice. I love her 'I want the truth' rant, because it's very SARA. This is what I mean, everything was so in character in this!
Catherine was amazing in this. She was very supervisor material! Standing up for Ray, but still questioning him because that's the only way she could clear his name.
I loved BRASS. He's so... AMAZING! You know, taking one for the team... it's so BRASS. And no one, not even Nick, with his whole heart-on-the-sleeve attitude, would have taken that risk. Uff! I can't get enough of it.
The lack of Nick annoyed me A LOT, and I thought Doc Robbins was very OC. But otherwise I liked the episode. Or maybe it's just that I'm glad Ray's FINALLY evil! =D It makes me so happy because now I can hate him without feeling guilty!
I actually liked the way they showed Gloria, and what she had gone through... Just IMPLIED. When they first showed her being wheeled into the ER with Langston going insane, I was a little ugh. But I think they really got us to sympathize with her, which helped me to sympathize with Langston JUST a little. I mean, even what HE did was in character. I wouldnt expect say, Greg or Nick or Catherine to have killed Haskell, but it's what RAY would have done.
What I loved most is the dynamics of the team in this one. Catherine and Brass were very awesome, and Greg and Sara butting heads without really fighting is very in character because they're such good friends in the show, that they're obviously comfortable enough around each other to argue without getting pissed off. I LOVED that they all stuck up for Ray, even if they didn't support his decision. That's very honourable of them, and I LOVE that. So I really DID like this episode, not because of the Ray-ness of that (I still hate him and hope he leaves soon), but I loved it because of the team unity in this! And Greg's face when Sara said she would have checked his case too! So sweet! So sad! I just LOVED that scene! Greg's suchay sweetheart! And now he's got me into a bubbly mood, and I have to go re-watch the locker room scene between Sara and Greg!
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Date: 2011-05-13 01:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 06:41 pm (UTC)Hopefully next season, with Haskell dead, we'll get back to more of a mix of the team members being the focus like it was before.
and I loved lots of Greg and especially when he asked Sara if she would have checked his kit. He already knew the answer, but I think he might have wanted to make her feel okay that she was not feeling okay at that moment.
Oh, and I loved it when Nicky said he was going to go tear the house apart... when he gets all worked up, his cowboy accent comes out and it's sexy.
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Date: 2011-05-14 04:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-13 11:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-14 04:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-14 03:01 am (UTC)I'm pissed that Catherine didn't turn Brass in for tampering with the evidence. I've always sort of hated Brass a little--not much, just a little--and his hiding the flex cuffs really pissed me off. I'd love to know what Catherine put in her official report.
I really hope that Ray's little chat with Doc Robbins at the end of the episode is indicating that he will tell the truth to the IA detective. "Be good, Ray"--tell the truth, go to prison for murder, and get the hell of our show.
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Date: 2011-05-14 04:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-15 09:57 pm (UTC)